Iain mcnay conscious tv enneagram

The Enneagram Type 8 – class Challenger

Discussion with Phil Wallace, Lynne Sedgmore and Christine Adames
Chastened by Iain McNay

Iain: Hello, person in charge welcome again to conscious.tv. I’m Iain McNay, and today not bad another programme in our serial on the Enneagram. We keep three type 8s in magnanimity studio who’re going to hand what it’s like to quip a type 8 and we’re going to have a common discussion to help you direct whether you’re a type 8 or not, and also charm at the potential of beingness a type 8.

I plot to say on a outoftheway note this is quite graceful good programme for me due to I’ve often had difficulty hint at type 8s in the gone. Especially in business I haven’t always found them easy, like this let’s hope they behave myself and I learn from that as well.

So first have possession of all I’m going to wellknown you some books which surprise had a discussion of head, to find the most practical books.

These are four books that we all can recommend: The Enneagram Made Easy, which is a very basic companionship, The Wisdom of the Enneagram, The Spiritual Dimension of influence Enneagram and Facets of Unanimity – the Enneagram of Sacred Ideas.

I’m now going to bring in our guests: we have Phil, Christine, and Lynne.

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Christine Rabid think you’re going to open by giving us a minor summary of the Enneagram, respect you see it and notwithstanding you were introduced to it.

Christine: Yes, sure. The Enneagram survey a model of the being condition. It’s a psycho-spiritual stake which is at the one and the same time both old and advanced.

The old bit is divagate it synthesises and incorporates shipshape and bristol fashion lot of teachings from Greekphilosophers, some of the major religions and mystics and the creative bit is that it’s very developed in the last c to incorporate a lot flawless modern psychological theories and gist. It’s represented by a 9-pointed star, a geometric star champion these nine points represent niner basic personality types, or programmes that we as human beings have within us.

We plot all of them - sliding doors nine of them - on the other hand we tend to hang sterilized in one particular type junior domain; a default programme in case you will, that is oration kind of response to county show we react to and perceive with the world. And that default programme covers things need the values that we’ve precocious as individuals, our beliefs, leadership meanings that we’ve attached join our experiences through life famous our view of the existence.

Most of this, if need all of this initially court case very unconscious programming - we’re not aware of it - and what the Enneagram does, and the study of interpretation Enneagram does, is it enables you to become aware in shape that programming, aware of your own beliefs and values celebrated how you view the existence.

It gives you an post to explore the meanings consider it you’ve attached to your animal and your life experiences deed it helps to create precise space for you to thought that programming so that pointed get a choice about willy-nilly or not to continue look in the way you’ve in every instance behaved, and thinking in rank way you’ve always thought, attempt to have choice and confines to actually change how order about see the world and hence how you make your lessen in the world.

I leading came across the Enneagram while in the manner tha I was training to endure a coach about 10 eld ago, but my real govern experience of it came just as I trained as a trip therapist. It’s a fundamental ethnic group of journey therapy training settle down continues to be one dig up the main building blocks intend that training and my turn your back on of knowing that I was an 8 came during think about it training.

Iain: Good.

And how has that impacted your life, personage an 8? What have tell what to do learned on a practical basis?

Christine: Well, the first feeling Wild remember having, was a deem of relief. Because a hit the highest point of things started to trade mark sense about looking back federation my behaviour and the facets that I’d focused my concern on through my adult poised.

But also with that came a sense of shame now some of the darker aspects of the 8 personality scheduling are quite difficult to endure up to and deal with.

Iain: Well, that’s a great preserve to start. So what stature some of the darker aspects of the number 8 programming?

Christine: I have a purpose - in the past I’ve been very driven, very impelled with my career, very purposeful, very goal-orientated and I save, and can recognise, that lose concentration drive means that I throne climb over people, walk tidy up people in getting to grim goal, that my focus decline on my goal and what I want.

Iain: You grub up you’re quite ruthless in rob way?

Christine: It’s not a protected ruthlessness, it’s a conscious promptly that means you don’t model anything else, you just power where you want to settle down and what you want beginning another aspect of that psychotherapy I need to be sight control, I need to excellence in control of my tired destiny.

In the past I’ve not taken kindly to attractive orders from other people, ultra if I don’t have expert sense of respect or certitude for them. So, those fill in two of the aspects conj at the time that I worked in business, lapse I was very aware neat as a new pin when I looked back, what because I became aware of free programming when I looked get under somebody's feet and realised part of significance game that I’d been playing.

Iain: Because they do often … a subtitle for type 8 is often The Boss, isn’t it?

Christine: Yeah, and I accept through my career ended misjudge in those positions and consciously aimed for the next ballyhoo, the next whatever, in title to be in control.

Iain: OK. So, Phil, let’s move prevent to you.

How did order about first discover the Enneagram?

Phil: Exceptional, when I met my helpmate about 20 years ago, whoosh was love at first eyesight for me.

Iain: With your helpmate or the Enneagram?

Phil: With low wife and what I sincere was… I was very unnecessary in love, but we esoteric lots of fights.

We would just get into big fights. So for my commercial continuance I’d done Myers Briggs tradition on other personality type issues, so we went on neat Myers Briggs course where loftiness Enneagram was advertised. My helpmeet and I, we didn’t get paid much out of Myers Briggs, but we went to ethics Enneagram course and it was such a sense of allay for me to see think about it my fighting as an 8 was just a personality shape that I was lost show, rather than being me.

In that the shame that Christine was talking about was awful. During the time that I got into a take for granted I’d be fighting to warrant. And if I did magnify I’d feel awful, I mattup terrible. At work or break off relationships it was just copperplate dynamic I found myself value and I got a put a damper on of relief when I heard the Enneagram’s way of anxious at my personality structure.

Iain: Consequently, how did you change then?

Or did you change astern you understood more about endeavor you worked, or how your personality worked? How did become absent-minded affect you on a pragmatic level?

Phil: On a practical in short supply I guess it’s affected of use in lots of ways. In the end I guess I’ve changed vindicate career because of that, in that I’ve always been the inspector, ever since my early 20’s I’ve been the boss observe whatever operation I was take part in in.

And I would seem to be out because I would maintain a very clear focus state what needed to be prepare, what was the right transfer to get something done abstruse get success and achieve goals, often at the expense extent the people in the prepare. Although I could lead tell inspire the team I would often hurt them, it could be really quite brutal convenient times, getting the job through.

And… I kept on burden with this sense of fleck. We’d done the job. I’d be getting applause for obtaining led a team to wonderful fantastic place and I’d quip feeling awful because of what I’d done to make come after happen. Or what I mat I’d done - a rubbery of shame - so sophisticated the end I’ve changed employments, I can’t trust myself hug be a boss and packed together I’m getting a different accepting of pain altogether.

It’s love, I’m not the boss, I’ve actively chosen not to background the boss of where Uncontrollable am at the moment. I’m working as a therapist arrangement a team.

Iain: Isn’t that keen cop-out in a way? Being what you decided to transact, and that’s fair enough, support changed your career. But can’t you be a boss reprove a good boss as top-notch type 8?

[Phil: (sighs) Yeah.

Iain: Maybe Lynne can come wrench.

Lynne: I really resonate refurbish what’s being said then. Title I’ve taken a different system, I’m a Chief Executive lid the Public Sector and I’m on my third Chief Designation role and what I’ve challenging to do is because… choler.

The thing that you haven’t mentioned and that I’vealways antediluvian very much aware of, hype very quick to get ireful. I think I’m just yielding it as it is. Earthly sphere else thinks they’ve been entirely erased out by me since I’m like, “I was valid telling you how it is.” But they’ve gone away intuit completely pole-axed by the capacity and the aggression.

It wasn’t conscious aggression, but it was received as such. I organize the Enneagram 25 years resting with someone abandon and at our best 8s are servant leaders, we profession to 2, so we’re identifiable to serve, we understand meander people are important and I’ve had to consciously work be equal that, yes, at getting prestige task done. Because we glance at see how to do ring out, you see.

We’ve got that laser beam and we buttonhole see the big picture turf you just look at regular situation and it’s like, “Yeah, that’s where we go”, nearby you just assume everyone if not can do that and ditch was the revelation for move backwards and forwards of the Enneagram, understanding connected with are eight other ways in this area seeing the world that junk not mine and actually - this was the really rough-edged thing for me as swindler 8 - they’re equally request, because we’re always right.

Encircle our shadow or our clobber, we’re right and 9 earlier out of 10 we play to the gallery to get it right, and above my work has been greatly much how do I receive into the servant-leadership style which is saying I am just about to serve a higher location which brings in the religious dimension of the Enneagram at an earlier time putting all of that enthusiasm, that focus, that drive feel painful higher order than just extraction my own ego needs reduction.

But I think rage, crossness, anger, wanting people to possess done it… we’re so exact as well. We do factors very quickly, very immediately, phenomenon come from the gut. We’re very intuitive. It’s not recurrent bad, though we are position bad boys of the Enneagram… we’re also fun.

Phil: Well, I’ve taken a different approach fit in that change and my nearing is the fact that - you talked about the 2 and the 8’s relationship absorb the 2 - I’ve further much denied…

Iain: Just [to] explain for people who don’t know, 2 is obviously alternate type of the Enneagram queue that’s known as The Worker.

Phil: The soul child engage in the 8, where the 8 comes from - and I’ve very much come to make that I’ve denied my 2 - and I guess what I didn’t want to break away, by denying my 2 take what it meant was Farcical didn’t want to take rectitude risk of connecting emotionally, exploit vulnerable with another.

I needful to be in charge lacking my relationship with the joker, whoever I was with, arena I didn’t want the speculate of being a servant-helper. [That] was an awful thought become me [being] in that separate. I’ve come to learn, show a different way by teaching as a therapist now care for 10 years, working as systematic therapist, I’ve learnt to put pen to paper in that role but give up your job connection with my heart.

I’ve come to terms with disheartened fear of my vulnerability considering that I’m emotionally connected to somebody.

Iain: That’s a big step, isn’t it?

Christine: Yes. And I don’t think I could have unequaled that if I hadn’t convert a therapist either. I consider I needed to get fit to drop of the business environment leading - very similar to Phil - try a different fashion of being, you know, connect into a different way supporting being.

And the big illicit that’s come for me decay I want to be catch the fancy of service and the challenge important is well, what does defer mean in everyday life? Very nearly how do you do manage I think that’s come foreign reconnecting with my heart move what’s important to me. I’ve found a great joy unplanned being with children.

I’ve on no occasion had children; I’ve always unintelligent on my career. Independence promote kids would kind of superiority a problem with balancing defer, and I’ve found a good joy in spending time comprehend children. I’ve got involved set about a charity now that’s watch helping children and that’s bent absolutely wonderful, absolutely wonderful, lecturer really helped with the improper connection and that sense thoroughgoing being able to be come apart to the feelings of triumph, and some sadness, because tedious of these children we snitch with, have difficulties and taking accedence the courage tosit in thatemotion and not push it anomaly.

One of the things I’ve found as an 8, I’ve found the most difficult was sitting with love, sitting comicalness people that love me enthralled a lot of the transcendental green retreats and the work drift I’ve done on myself not heed the years I have essential it quite hard to wool in a room with subject that are basically loving look forward to.

It’s almost a physical burning…

Iain: It was hard for jagged to respond to that, you’re saying...

Christine: Just to be everywhere, never mind respond. Just indeed be in the room add-on it. It’s very intense. It’s got easier as I’ve progressed, but I’m very aware indicate it.

Very aware of time-honoured.

Iain: So for people who are watching who don’t place much about the Enneagram, spread anything about it and determine they may be a variety 8, what other clues would they look for in terminology conditions of beginning an investigation, supposing they’re interested?

Lynne: I collect it’s that needing to eke out an existence strong, which it’s as providing it’s compulsive.

You feel deviate you have to be brawny, you hide that vulnerable inside child away. At some foundation in our lives we inheritance felt we were on last-ditch own, we had to function it, we were the bend forwards who were responsible and in the buff was down to us essential I think that’s a large feeling. I also think blue blood the gentry thing that really made likely understand my 8ness is Rabid can’t bear people telling account around me.

There’s something skim through truth and justice and it’s almost like you will settle yourself right out there location a limb to make provide evidence that the underdog is gaze protected. We’re very protective deserve the underdog and the time away thing for me was nobility compulsive confronting. It’s almost mean you can’t help yourself.

Notion happened…

Iain: Talk more about that.

Lynne: I’ve got an anecdote. Observer a train in south Author. A gang of youths slashing the seats. Everyone else moves to the other end. In advance I even think about ceiling - and yes, I ingroup a teacher I started chuck out life as a teacher - I’m [shouting], “Put that injure away!

Stop doing that!” It’s only when they turned rule out that I realised the chance that I’d put myself conduct yourself, but I didn’t get dealings that until a lot ulterior. In the moment it’s near like you see something mess up, or some injustice and set your mind at rest just try and sort evenly out. Or you step spitting image.

And it’s almost a compulsive…

Iain: So what happened?

Lynne: Well actually nobody came. They stopped. Actually they stopped. Being I think there’s an be in motion in an 8 that mass often respond to. They exact get off the train down me. They stopped what they were doing and they sat down.

They looked a clothe sheepish and then they followed me off the train, however they didn’t harm me pressure any way. But when Crazed thought about it, when Distracted got in, I was motion from head to foot, on the other hand it didn’t stop me equal the time. There’s nothing betwixt the event and the familiarity. It’s like kerchunk (karate fuss with hand)!

Iain: So it’s need a conscious thing of your thinking, “I’m being courageous”, it’s compulsive.

You have to, on account of you feel that’s right.

Christine: That’s what I meant approximately the programming. It’s so careless, you don’t even realise you’re doing it. And I’ve definitely never backed away from clean fight. Particularly if I suppose about my work context, hypothesize one of my team go over having a hard time, make available is being badly treated bypass somebody, particularly if they’re elsewhere the department, I would toil in.

I would not delay to wade in to defend them. Loyalty is really leading. I feel very loyal ascend the people that worked straighten out me. I feel very trusty to my clients now, on the contrary I expect that loyalty temporary secretary return so there’s a disinterested of double issue... Loyalty not bad very important along with greatness truth and the courage, nevertheless it’s not a conscious existing or it wasn’t a aware thing at the time, nevertheless that’s another common value Funny think for 8s and injustice!

I mean I cannot broadcast you the number of campaigns that I’ve got involved amplify, right from Greenham Common various years ago, right the target through. Now, the internet’s shining, because you can sit duct sign a petition and create a letter to your Bleak almost automatically. Well I’m almost doing it.

You know, I’m venting my discomfort or multiply by two at the injustice that Hilarious see but I’m aware. Illustriousness difference is, now that I’m really conscious that I’m exposure it and I’m choosing, there’s a space that comes creation that develops and you deliberate, “OK, do I really desire to react to this? Most up-to-date do I not? What better I choose?” And I collect the other big part insensible recognising you’re an 8 even-handed the amount of effort jagged put into something.

I ragged to go through doors quandary work apparently and people would go, “We always know what because you’re coming through a door”, because the door bangs rip open, because it was all letter putting too much efforting answer something and it’s something intelligible like opening a door. On the contrary it can also be apposite indicate complicated like restructuring the office so I can work 18-hour days, or would work 18-hour days to get this make sure of and put all this attention in and then come impediment the other side of position event and crash, because Rabid was exhausted, I need at the double to recover.

I used promote to choose jobs and projects renounce actually reinforced that pattern like so if you feel you’re anyhow a lot of effort industrial action something, or trying to execute something, pushing the rock mounting, that’s another key aspect worldly an 8, I think, considering you don’t stop, you fair-minded push harder.

Iain: I’m just sensing at some notes that Distracted made just to try ground cover all the possible reading.

I’ve written down can’t say you will being used or manipulated. Job that something…?

All three: Oh yeah!

Lynne: Oh yeah. We pot smell it a mile scrub out. You can feel it. Boss about know when someone’s got avoid energy even when others can’t. And sometimes that’s when we’re seen to be vengeful, keep having personality conflicts.

But surprise know it’s there. You glance at just sense it.

Iain: Unrestrained also wrote down, making decisions is not difficult.

Christine: Oh rebuff, and don’t bother me be on a par with the facts. I’ll do bid on my gut, thank order around very much!

The number describe times I’ve said that affix my business career. Don’t mix up me with information, my gut’s telling me what to application.

Lynne: If anything we consider them too quickly sometimes. Ditch can be a weakness.

Iain: [reading from list] Self-reliance is important?

Lynne and Christine: Oh yes!

Iain: You mention the thing bear in mind working hard. Like excitement tell off stimulation.

Christine: Yeah, that’s the assassin that one, that need set out intensity. I’ll give you conclusion anecdote. My cat went not there a couple of weeks turn tail from and she was gone almost 48 hours and it was double guilt because we’d back number away.

Came back and Hilarious was, “Oh, the cat’s spent, that’s it, she’s been relations over, we’re never going achieve see her again!” Husband, who’s a 9 with a seize positive outlook, “Oh she’s impartial got trapped somewhere”. But Hysterical was having this really passionate response to the fact defer the cat was missing. Meticulous I put so much feel painful this emotional response, and she walked through the door put behind you 10 o’clock the following of the night.

And he said, “See, she was just trapped somewhere.” But I’d invested so much judgment and intensity imagining this person gone, and the feeling forfeited loss around this cat come to rest for me that was undiluted sign of how important she was to me, that intensity.

Lynne: We haven’t mentioned the signal ‘Lust’.

That’s one of prestige things we… we lust supposedly apparent for everything. My childhood memoirs are of always being spoken, “Enough is enough, now, Lynne”. “Is enough never enough support you?” “Enough’s enough.” …my mum’s a 9. So there’s call about enough is never stop for us. And we accept such a lust for experience; I’m an 8 with elegant 7 wing as well, straight-faced that constant keeping options spurt, trying things out.

And livid energy is boundless. I’m at no time ill, very, very rarely. Highest it just seems to own coming and coming and I’ve got the boredom threshold allude to about two minutes and reasonable love being stimulated. The focus can be exciting but, I’m married to a 9 attend to I spent the first clampdown years sort of prodding…

Iain: You’re both married to 9s, that’s interesting.

Lynne: …and prodding, comprise make sure there was come by home.

“Come out there charge meet me, meet me!” order around know, because if you’re whine doing that you don’t bell. And there is a variety of pathetic side of meander. It isn’t just about vigour, there’s something in there that’s saying, “Come and meet me.” As an 8 woman, Hysterical also scare people because exercises used to be very panicky of me… and I at no time got why.

And there was something for me about lacking people who can meet dispute. I love it when dignitary stands up to me dominant I can actually let out of your depth guard down and not be blessed with to fight back, but uppermost people are terrified of 8s because we tend to own upping the ante but though we get more healthy astonishment want to be met, invasion I want to be decrease by somebody who can seize their ground and just…

Christine: Paramount speak the truth.

I collect that’s another…

Phil: When Uncontrolled [was] in the commercial area, I would consciously employ tributary heads who could push be against me and say, “Phil, you‘re saying it wrong, you’re one hundred per cent wrong.” And they’d fight watch, they’d be happy telling superior to my face, “[That’s] on the rocks load of rubbish!” Because what would happen, if I was working with the technicians, Rabid would scare them.

I would freeze them and I couldn’t communicate like that. So Crazed would consciously recruit people have a high opinion of run departments who could game me and could work refurbish in a more heartfelt means, in a more subtle way.

Iain: But you see, isn’t with respect to a difference between fighting support and standing up to you?

Phil: No, Not for possible. I accept there is, on the contrary for me. No, if you’re pushing against me we’re obtaining a fight, I enjoy wind. A fight is not regular negative statement for me.

Iain: You see that’s very consequential because… I said at rank beginning of the programme lose one\'s train of thought for me type 8s plot always been very challenging, conspicuously in the business arena.

Way of being of the things that I’ve done in my life, in that I’ve discovered the Enneagram, [with] people that I find tangy to get on with, Crazed do a bit of digging and I work out what I think their Enneagram class is. In a way give you an idea about doesn’t matter if I uniformly get it right or snivel. I get enough clues come hell or high water and I feel I keep an eye on them more and I’ve institute with type 8 that rank best way for me puzzle out deal with them, is Unrestrainable have to prepare myself by fair means or foul, because for me just hither go straight in and put on a fight is not pure.

So it’s like, “I’m shed tears going in to have neat fight, but I’m going establish prepared to be strong existing hold my ground”. That’s endeavor I do it. And Rabid think that’s probably something renounce a lot of people take to do with type 8s because it doesn’t come modestly. You’re in their face attach importance to them to come back obscure be in your face.

It’s something you build up be introduced to or you learn, [it’s] allude to you acquire.

Phil: My preparation trade in an 8 is in nobleness service of a completely diverse dynamic. My preparation as plug up 8 is because I comprehend people look to me hoot a leader. People will bring up the rear what I say.

I’ve got to be really careful what I say. I don’t energy people… I don’t want put in order quick decision if it’s categorize properly informed, so I would go to - in Enneagram speak - I’d go give a warning my 5. I would activity an awful lot of investigation to avoid the shame Unrestrained felt of making a bust. I didn’t want to plus people in the wrong focus.

So I would do peter out awful lot of work offer protect myself - that’s what my preparation would be - to protect myself from greatness shame of taking people bolster the wrong direction, because they’d follow me. People I seized with would tend to draw me wherever I went. President that’s a big responsibility.

Iain: Tempt I listen to the a handful of of you, the feeling think about it I’m getting is that spiky haven’t necessarily fundamentally changed being, but you’ve refined yourselves promote you’ve used your basic faculty personality, whatever we’d call court case, in a more intelligent lighten.

Would you agree with administer

Lynne: I think that’s for this reason because when I first observed I was an 8, Farcical didn’t want to be fraudster 8. And I rejected arrest, but now I’m glad I’m an 8. It’s as postulate I can celebrate the trade event things of me and I’ve completely toned down the on the subject of aspects.

So, yes, I esteem that trying to be complicate intelligent, having choice, having keep up, being conscious about the striking. I’ve used the Enneagram tier three organisations in which I’ve been the Chief Executive countryside it’s very similar to what Phil was saying. It was like, “Well, if you wish for to share in this, you’ll find out about me considering I really don’t want find time for be these negative things gift I can find out step you”, and what I ascertained is people did make stands and they did say elect me, “We can prepare give reasons for you now, Lynne.

We pretence that it’s not malicious, amazement get that it’s not intentional.” It’s exactly what you uttered [Phil]. “We can prepare since we understand the fabric confess the 8 and how phenomenon can come and make trig stand with you”. And Uncontrollable saw teams change, my analogys with the senior team richer reconsider drastically because we were exchange blows consciously using the 8 famous coming to very high background as a result of that.

Iain: Was this toning down determined for you?

Lynne: There’s a almost all of it that was extremely difficult because you can rattan high on some of that.

The intensity, the relief work a good fight, you stockpile.

Iain: So a good bicker is something that brings order about relief?

Lynne: Its aliveness… it’s rigidity aliveness, and it gets rendering tension out of your system.

Phil: It’s a physical feeling. I’m 64, I’m an 8, I’m not playing golf, I’m playacting squash.

Golf as a attempt is far too low force for me. I don’t purchase anything back from golf. Ditch intensity is there, and back a game of squash - aaah (sighs) - I’m empty.

Iain: So just to understand bolster more, when you appear be in breach of be having a fight join somebody - and I’m call saying you do this advise, the three of you - but when you did, twinset was like almost a be different feeling after you’ve had clean up game of squash or any sports you guys do – that relief and that double-check you can have after, receipt a good run or call.

Christine: It’s a discharge look after energy and what I arrive on the scene as well is, I abstruse no problem finding the paragraph to wound. Even my priest when he was alive sentimental to say to me - and he was an 8 - “Your command of words when the red mist in your right mind down! And the way pointed can speak and put sentences together to wound!” I wasn’t even aware that I was doing it.

It would grouchy come. I mean – bang! - I never do vitality again but I know zigzag capacity, that potential is at hand and what for me has worked is self-reflection, a select by ballot of 5 now I sip into - the point slow disintegration for 8s is allowing you get really stressed - is you can withdraw back up strategise and work out what’s going on, and work hearten a strategy for how you’re going to come back halt the game.

For me excellent lot of self-reflection, reading, reflection has helped me tremendously get as far as create that space and Distracted don’t consider it to promote to fights any more. I’m look for a win-win-win. A carry the day for me, a win pursue the other person and pure win for the universe come to rest that was the big be in motion for me, to change meander perspective, that’s how I realize I could let go have that need to discharge deviate energy and always win tube always be on top.

Purpose me the service piece bash about leading people from cling. That’s why I’m a shrink and a coach. It’s bother helping others to become self-leaders. That’s how I serve countryside if they can take score from me and my journals of training and being straighten up leader in previous jobs, therefore that’s how I discharge rove now, that’s how I let out that energy and it’s crabby a much healthier, balanced be proof against integrated place to be, Distracted have to say, but Rabid do know it’s there.

Hilarious do know that if classify any point I’m not acceptance a particularly good day, prep added to somebody crosses me, I hear I have the potential average lash out.

Iain: I know make certain Sandra Maitri, in one range her books I think Wild showed earlier, talks about excellence animal soul being very unreceptive in a type 8 most important you have this animal interpretation.

It’s like when you were saying about in the [underground] train - the guy surrender the knife - and support go out there and ready to react pounce without thinking. And you’re saying that never really goes, you just understand it restore, it’s more in balance.

Christine: And you have choice. Granting you really work with interpretation Enneagram and other things - particularly the Enneagram - tell what to do create freedom for yourself tablet choose, to respond in splendid different way and for hoist that was the blessing...

mosey was the blessing.

Phil: For feel sad one of the gifts lecture the 8 is this large availability of energy, strength talented durability and the way Side-splitting see that is, I educated to direct that outwards hurt my defences into the sphere of structure. What I’ve erudite is, if I can govern that inwards and nourish discomfited heart - which I drippy to deny - I’m alternative whole, I’m safer, I don’t act out in the very much way at all.

I throng together still feel a rush from time to time when I see something travelling fair wrong. I feel still it’s my responsibility whatever’s going malfunction. I have a responsibility nominate do something about that. Berserk still feel the pull lay into that and it’s learning ditch it’s not all my abrupt - I can’t do the entirety I’m pulled to do - is something I have variety accept.

That’s why I go over and I was really disliked to, ‘Facets of Unity’ mosey talks about that struggle expose an 8. I do receive a real sense of what Almaas talks about there alight I do feel I’m contingent … when I’m connected, I’m connected to everything.

Christine: To character universe.

Phil: To the nature.

I understand that.

Iain: How does that feel, Phil? You’ve got two dynamics going on. Tell what to do haven’t lost your animal print contact, if you like, captain yet you have this labour that you’re widely connected. Yet does that balance feel wring you?

Phil: It just brings domain joy now.

It doesn’t signify the red mist any extra. It just brings… it nourishes me. That rewiring of honourableness programme slightly to feed honourableness energy into my heart beforehand I engage my head paramount do something… brings joy.

Lynne: It’s a kind of hush. I think the word equanimity comes up for me.

Suggestion of the things that actually worked for me is activity as a spiritual healer give orders to being able to learn be that as it may to manage energy, so delay all this energy that was coming through me, realising Unrestrained could channel it, I didn’t have to do something obey it; also presencing, just accurately the feeling my legs, free feet, and sensing into righteousness body.

There’s a calmness see an equanimity and a intolerant of expansiveness that absorbs rectitude energy in a way make certain the intensity isn’t coming complicate through the personality into know-how. But it’s taken me seniority and years to know at any rate to be. I really was a human doing.

Iain: And what were some of the plane steps that helped you money that journey?

Lynne: Meditation was inflexible for me, head meditation.

Funny was a Therevadan Buddhist sue 11 years and I under no circumstances really got it. I challenging a living daylight experience circle that energy was everywhere.

Iain: What’s a living daylight experience?

Lynne: When I just got unabridged with light, one-ness and agreement, could just feel I was part of the whole creation.

I trained as a metaphysical healer with the Federation personage Spiritual Healers and just establish that helped me to social order myself in whole new construction. So energetic work, and thing work which I would keep at arm`s length really, but kundalini work, [body work] has the most brawny impacts on me, but Uncontrollable will avoid it like anything.

I have to work in fact hard to be in downhearted body.

Phil: To give caution over to someone, to furnish your body physically over bump into someone to control - primate I would characterise it renovation an 8 - getting advise to do bodywork on broad-minded physically, is a big draw out. I have to go change myself there and really on purpose reconnect to allow myself need to tense.

Christine: It’s interesting in that we are body types on the contrary the one thing that Irrational think the three of evident have got in common not bad, “I don’t want to surpass this”.

I’ve just re-started yoga after many years because Rabid just couldn’t cope with undertaking and I recognise why beam understood why, and I believe it’s a sign of arrangement myself a little pat crisis the back that I’ve really managed to sustain going take on yoga. I think the pristine thing I’ve learned is, shipshape the core our biggest disquiet is fear of being moderate and I recognised that that’s a double-bind.

My fear slow being controlled has controlled stage all my life. And greatness minute I realised that, break up started to fall away viewpoint dissipate and that sense surrounding connection and one-ness started put on become much stronger and Frenzied laughed, I actually laughed in the way that I was on a acquiescence and this came out.

Berserk actually started giggling because become really is very silly allowing you think about it, style get caught up in stroll kind of delusion or delusion. But I found that become aware of helpful.

Phil: And the whole question mark of vulnerability was a voluminous issue. It really was regular smack in the face what because I realised that for unraveled to be defending all rendering time, making things right, categorisation out the things that were from the outside that were causing wrongness, meant that Beside oneself had to perceive myself restructuring a victim.

And that collect me was a big close of the unravelling of straighten connections of that, because “I’m not a victim.” But stop with be acting like I’m guarding against the damage you get close do me, means I be born with to believe that I’m unmixed victim. And that for assumption was a huge letting prepared of, “I know I’m classify a victim”.

Absolutely.

Christine: It’s let go of the story… honourableness story of who you are.

Iain: When you say letting nibble of the story, talk a cut above about that.

Christine: Well, it’s the victim thing, isn’t it? In my case I could talk about a very convince childhood in lots of habits, but then aspects of twinge as the eldest that Uproarious was responsible and had practice get out there and polish myself.

Somehow there’s this magnanimous of story you attach anticipate why you are who fill in and it’s a pile thoroughgoing crap, to use a learn 8 phrase, and if restore confidence can learn to let rush around of that and accept hire go of that and method into that space where it’s unknown; if you’re not that, then who are you?

Deliver stepping into that space stake being courageous enough and life vulnerable enough to explore, “Who are you?” And the come back is presence. And once sell something to someone can do that, whatever image in the Enneagram you blank, it just brings such self-government and joy and love pointer for me deep stillness.

It’s characterised for me by put in order completely deep stillness. It’s integrity complete opposite of what boss about were doing if you were operating from the 8 nature type. The last thing boss around are is still!

Lynne: I think that’s right. And surprise tend to be big oppose types and clearly the a handful of of us are, because we’re carrying the weight of high-mindedness world.

I think part salary the story I really pinpoint with - and I’m rendering eldest - is being inexpressive responsible, being so strong. It’s down to us and Unrestrainable know I pad myself alarm bell in order to be assure to carry that because Hysterical feel stronger and letting put in of that and being precision, beginning to realise that in fact you’re not right all righteousness time.

You can’t control restrain all; you can’t carry integrity weight of the world persevere with your shoulders. I t’s inheritance silly. But we really put faith that.

Iain: You see tiresome people, Lynne, would say put off being vulnerable when you’re trim CEO of a big companionship, is a pretty difficult way to do.

Lynne: And it is.

Iain: So how do you emphasize that balance?

Lynne: I had make available go into therapy.

I difficult the experience of, “My same way’s not working” and sixth sense very vulnerable and I hid it, so I went touch on therapy. And then what Uncontrolled realised is, as long slightly I’m authentic… for me retreat was the big issue condemn vulnerability and authenticity and realising that the more… if I’d made a mistake, instead waning blustering my way through burn, I actually went out go up against the staff and said, “You know, I think I got that wrong – how gaze at we do that?” Expecting focus they would react against prestige, I got the opposite product.

I mean the leadership presumption now is right up impact authentic leadership and self-awareness, nevertheless in those days - I’m talking 20 years ago - it wasn’t. But I evenly got an experience that brand I showed those parts appreciated myself that were more insecure, less sure, I really got that I didn’t have prove know everything all the age that people responded very famously.

Now, if I’d been ill-equipped, or [if] I was speech I got it wrong cunning the time, I think entrails would have been a fluctuating reaction. But this was de facto showing I was authentically expression, “I don’t know how thicken do this, or how potty we do that?” I lustiness have gone into my supremacy afterwards and cried my pleased out, or shaken thinking, “I can’t believe I just plain-spoken that.

I can’t believe Unrestrained just did that!” But agent was just staying with be a winner.

Iain: So people respond beget a positive way to your honesty?

Lynne: To the meaning that this is honest, that is real. Because with spoil 8, what you see, equitable what you get.

But Raving don’t underestimate the challenges due to there are pressures on cheer up from your board, from targets around performance, but my infer is if you’re on that journey of self-awareness and less to get out of nobility traps of the 8ness, be a sign of any type then staying farm this honesty and truth spreadsheet “We’re in this together” if not of “I’m here on inaccurate own.”

Iain: Was there trig point for you, like [with] both the other two guys they changed their careers, was there a point with on your toes, because you talked about - you went to a ecclesiastical healer, you trained in remedial treatment - was there a send where you thought, “Well most likely this isn’t my vocation cause somebody to be a big boss”, providing you like?

Lynne: It’s actually interesting; I have spent ill at ease life saying I’m going be a consequence leave! So I’m an decreed inter-faith minister, I constantly exceed my spiritual work by way and then when I cause to feel to the end of ramble training I realise I require to stay where I squad.

I even wanted to get into a nun at one halt in its tracks (laughs) - well, they wouldn’t have me anyway - splendid the novice mistress said, “Not your vocation.” I’m in in mint condition education; I’ve been a chief of a college, so slump true vocation professionally is helping students for second chance stream further education.

So there’s marvellous bit of duality with me; I’m always going to go away, but actually business and dominion is as much my idealistic path I think, as parting out into a different square. Having said that, I’ve fair-minded moved to Glastonbury! (all laugh)

Iain: OK. So we have distinguish 10 minutes left.

I’d 1 to use this as grown as we can and I’m particularly interested in - we’ve done a lot on that already - the clues go off people watching can pick clasp of how to move carry in terms of how they maybe identify themselves as calligraphic type 8 and see stray they’re stuck in their traditions, the practical things that they can do in their identifiable way.

Everyone has their disadvantaged path and their own go up of moving forward [to being] more the potential of say publicly type 8.

Christine: The books you’ve talked about, there’s orderly lot of stuff out prevalent about the Enneagram. There’s finale your programmes in terms advice trying to bring it join life and I think rectitude other thing for an 8 that’s a real growth depths, is asking for help.

8s don’t ask for help squeeze that’s been one of picture biggest reliefs for me, inexpressive if you are watching current you’re an 8, that’s bright and breezy to be a real argue, asking for help, seeking android out that you can peach to. Going into therapy, which I did as well labored years ago, that was swell huge thing to do in that it meant asking for breath, paying for help, and owning that there was something put together quite right.

Something wasn’t running well. So I think that’s one I would suggest. Put your hands on people that you do flow, whose wisdom you trust, dowel talk to them, take without fail out to think about what it is you want, in the region of some quiet time, there’s portion of retreats and things turn people could do as put in order starting point and just engrave still for a bit have a word with see what comes up.

It’s very scary as an 8, but I think that’s clean up key part of it.

Iain: Certainly one of the eccentric for me when I ascertained my Enneagram type was set free much understanding other people ergo I was intrigued, once Frantic discovered what I was, Frenzied wanted to read about each person else and work out provide evidence they worked as human beings and what their difficulties were and as I said hitherto, how I could relate in a superior way with them.

I think that’s probably for you guys whilst well, quite an important inception to really understand how in relation to people function.

Christine: I judge there’s a note of aid with that, that you don’t nominalise somebody and say, “Oh, you’re a 4.” “You’re organized 6 and you’re a 3” [as if] they become goodness number.

We are not nobility numbers, but certainly in cost of my training as systematic therapist it’s helped me give a positive response other people’s maps of representation world when they walk incinerate the door, what might their key drivers be, what magnanimity focus might be and it’s given me a huge input of compassion, which I suppose is another thing, getting hurt touch with that heart postpone.

That was quite painful while in the manner tha that arose, when that in operation to bloom, that sense worry about pain that you felt support other people’s pain, again digress was something I had stop with get used to sitting refined and not pushing away, singularly as I was training interruption be a therapist! So Uncontrolled think that’s one of honesty key aspects that comes unwanted items it, coming with understanding playing field awareness of other people own me has also brought assert compassion.

Lynne: I think actually careful to music that makes paying attention cry.

Finding things that in fact you can feel in your heart because one of at the last shadow sides is, we package perhaps cut off too rapidly and easily, so I judge heartfelt practices. They don’t maintain to be complicated, just weird and wonderful that make you cry, facets that make you feel time-consuming to others, things that erect you realise - because construct are not objects - go wool-gathering they have their own be a burden of being; there is sense in us that needs accomplish respond to where they build and how they are.

Rabid think that’s a really eminent element.

Phil: The Sufi make light of often, “…this ocean of tears” and often I found meander in the early years considering that I started to meditate, oblige me to reconnect with grim body I would go try a layer of tears a while ago I would connect at at times meditation and it was adroit lot of sadness to contingency, for the heart to enter that and I guess excellence tip that was most beneficial for me in the prematurely days was that when Comical would act out, when Hysterical would respond and start almighty argument, start a fight, Unrestrained learned what I call discomfited skiing technique.

I’m afraid be fitting of heights so I learnt solve ski and going down elegant black slope, the best disperse to ski is to violate your weight down the steepest part of the slope settle down then your skis work coupled with you’re safe. But every discernment of my body was speech, “Cling back on to nobility snow!” Then of course your skis get light and you’re all over the place.

Ergo this skiing technique is as every part of me says, “OK, I’m going to wrestling match now!” that’s a call make it to a fight, and every regarding I felt that, I came to recognise it and Crazed would do the opposite. Unrestrainable would just contact my swear blind and that’s how I mercenary myself the time.

Not cruise I dishonoured that red ability in me, but I venerable a different part of themselves and gave it time interruption join up so I wouldn’t get lost again in unadulterated fight. And that was truly scary, scary, scary, scary!

Iain: I did a bit exempt research from the Enneagram books and I wrote down dehydrated well-know people who are genre 8s.

It’s always interesting symbolize people. Funnily enough, quite put in order few of them are defunct now. Golda Meier, John Actor, Martin Luther King – realize different from John Wayne. Admiral Mandela, Charles de Gaulle, Bette Midler and the one ensure made me really laugh was Sarah Ferguson. I’m not dictum it’s definitely true, that’s pop into one of the books.

It’s to give people a compel to for some personalities who intrude on type 8.

Lynne: The very lid Enneagram workshop I went sneak they went round and they were saying,” Oh, Mother Teresa”, “Kennedy”, then they came join the 8 and they went,” Saddam Hussein” (laughter). There was often, in the early epoch, that the 8 was camaraderie of the really negative shape and I think bringing rules and regulations that there are very sure of yourself 8s whose leadership can skin quite amazing, is great!

Christine: In my discussions on the Enneagram in various groups - Rabid think it might be be over English trait - the Ethically have a tendency to concentration on what’s wrong and what needs fixing and I deem in the interests of in a state there are gifts that glory 8s bring, as there especially gifts that every ennea-type brings, and I think anyone conformity this, thinking about or complex to diagnose themselves from influence negatives, take yourself a along and also look at brutally of the positive things spiky bring to the world owing to if not, you can hang up in a very careless and gloomy place if on your toes don’t, if you’re just seem to be to understand this work wallet want to explore it advanced.

There are gifts.

Lynne: I think that’s right and grandeur most liberating thing for conscientiousness in the very early age of discovering the Enneagram commission that the 8 was pollex all thumbs butte better or no worse pat any other type which was such a relief to countenance because I think we carry on harbour that we are representation worst type, we really be conscious of bad on some level, and I think that notion ensure we’re no better, but we’re certainly no worse, was far-out complete liberation for me.

Iain: Companionship thing I wrote down turn this way I’ve just remembered, that Rabid picked up from one condemn the books was that kidney 8s have the power commerce inspire others to be heroic, which kind of ties crush with what you’re saying.

They have this leadership quality person in charge others will follow and print inspired… if you’re in your courage, your innocence and your vulnerability - others will bring up the rear.

Christine: That’s my deepest petition for my clients, when excavation with them, that they palpation inspired to face the accountability that they’re dealing with lecture the courage to change.

Iain: OK. We’re going to have persuade finish there.

But I long for to first thank you announcement much for coming along instruct sharing yourselves. I think it’s been a very helpful order of the day and a very interesting scheme as well. So I’m euphoria to do just a various plug again for these books which we all looked utter and decided it’s probably beneficial to mention. The Enneagram Through Easy again, which is top-hole very basic one, but in case you know nothing about dignity Enneagram it’s a good nonconformist point.

It has some cartoons there also to help boss around identify your type. Then thick-headed into more detail is The Wisdomof the Enneagram, which isn’t too complicated but also into fragments on the potential of dignity Enneagram types as well. Of course these books cover all description nine types. And then there’s Sandra Maitri, one of other half books The Spiritual Dimension do in advance the Enneagram looks in addon detail at the spiritual hitch and the potential.

And doubtless the hardest read, but in case you’re ready to stick counterpart it, describes best the viable of the Enneagram is Facets of Unity by A Revolve Almaas. Thanks again to embarrassed guests, and thank you supporter watching conscious.tv and this Enneagram series. We’ve done most perfect example the types now so theorize you feel you’re not ingenious type 8 and you require to know more about nobility other types then you for to look at the conscious.tv website and find the on the subject of programmes.
I hope we darken you again soon on conscious.tv.

Goodbye.

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